Thermometer space

[EnochRoot]

If anyone has any tips on how to conserve Thermometer space please pass them on.The only thing I can think of is trying to stick to the same few materials.What eats up the thermometer the quickest? I noticed using some of the in game created objects and characters takes up quite a big chunk.

[b-coli]

I did notice on my contest level, when I made the entire plain ( heart material) one giant piece. My therm went down a little., but that might be from the camera and emitters that disappeared when I did it. That is why I didn't publish it that way.. Nice topic. I can use any help with trying to keep the therm down...

[PixelledFox]

things that quickly fill the thermomether:
- a lot of objects on the screen at once
- very complicated objects (also if there are more than 1 on the screen at once)
- many stickers on 1 object (same for decorations)
- creatures (they really take up a lot of space)
- emitted objects
- your custom stickers

[KodeRiter722]

me and ekel are self-proclaimed experts on this subject...here's some tips:

1. Each material jumps the thermo once it is placed in the level(even if its a small block.) Once the material is introduced, you have a LOT to play with before it jumps the thermo at all. This also goes for switches and objects.

This means that if you use few materials(you dont HAVE to use stone and metal in the same level, or any glass if it doesn't serve a purpose) you can save a bunch of your thermo. Likewise for the different switches and items.

if you would like to experiment, just make a box or shape of something nd then just copy and keep pasting it and watch the therm change. try it with complex devices to. you would be surprised with what you can get away with when you copy!

2. Gluing objects together is bad. The more complex objects will suddenly jump the thermo. A great trick is to use two bolts instead of gluing an object to a different plane. Dark matter is a big help, just place some into the material to float it, instead of gluing, or just place it on it. (Trying to emphasize that gluing is bad)

3. Emitters are tricky with thermo. The longer you emit an object, and the amount you emit at once take the most toll on the thermo. If you know that something will never have 100 on screen(i emitted a little hovercraft once in the turtle or the hare, and if i set more than one at a time it will jump the thermo) When you are playing with emitters, really keep an eye on the thermo and see what affects it!

gotta get ready for work..i'll post some more later

[penev10]

Creatures are the biggest killer. My tip is if you have an emitter emitting creatures, only set it for the minimum number you'll need (don't leave it on infinite if the most anyone is ever going to see is 10). This decreases the thermo alot.

[ekelrock]

me and ekel are self-proclaimed experts on this subject...

whoa whoa, im still learning... no expert here. but the other stuff v1 said is valid. also, i think, for some reason, copying objects and modifying them saves thermo over rebuilding them...

[KodeRiter722]

okay...so maybe "expert" was a bit of a stretch...but we have spent a lot of time experimenting with it!

[wulongheyot]

I also found one thing that kills the thermo. Each object placed where lines meet are called "verticies". So a simple square has four verticies (four corners), now if you take the shape tool and add a another vertex between two corners, now the object has 5 verticies. Lbp dosen't show the verticies (which is horrible), but if you run the mod tool over the edges of the objects it will highlight each vertex that it comes across. In 3d modeling, the more verticies your object has, the densor your mesh will be, the smoother the object will be, which puts more stress on a real time renderer.

An example would be: take a material and make a square. It will have 4 verticies. Now take a circle object and subtract the circle shape out of the square. Now that square will have 10 to 100 verticies. You can do this example and run the mod pointer tool over the edges of where you cut the circle out of. This kills the thermo. So even though you may see a square with four corners, and you cut it some how with another shape it's sometimes misleading just by looking at it and seeing how many verticies it actually has. So circles will essentially take up more thermo compared to objects with right angles.

I totally agree wtih the gluing aspect of lbp. Stay away from it as much as you can. create tiny little bolts out of the dark matter, it actually makes editing easier!

I still don't understand the emitters and the way they take up thermo. In my newest level, I come across times when everything just stop emitting and I wish the folks over at MM could release sometype of specs regarding how it actually works so we could find efficient ways to actually use them.

[FishBone]

I still don't understand the emitters and the way they take up thermo. In my newest level, I come across times when everything just stop emitting and I wish the folks over at MM could release sometype of specs regarding how it actually works so we could find efficient ways to actually use them.

The emitters will stop working if the level overheats while playing the level.
I had a problem with this on my pinball-level, after some playtime alot of stuff stopped working.
Just make sure you have some temp left if you are trying to emit alot of stuff.

BTW: Are you sure circles counts as many vertices and not just one vertice and a radius? (i know they aren't actually circular, but it would be easier to calculate them as circular)


Also, community objects use more temp then home-made objects for some reason.

[Flare Skull]

What gets the thermometer going is the amount of “moving” parts - and by “moving” I mean objects that are actually moving (like creatures, piston-driven objects, etc…) and objects that merely have the *potential to be moved* and that are not “nailed down”, such as loose score bubbles or objects not stuck to the floor or glued to dark matter.

[FishBone]

What gets the thermometer going is the amount of “moving” parts - and by “moving” I mean objects that are actually moving (like creatures, piston-driven objects, etc…) and objects that merely have the *potential to be moved* and that are not “nailed down”, such as loose score bubbles or objects not stuck to the floor or glued to dark matter.

I don't see any difference on the thermometer between moving parts and not, and don't understand why it should be any either.
Have you tried this out somehow?

[KodeRiter722]

What gets the thermometer going is the amount of “moving” parts - and by “moving” I mean objects that are actually moving (like creatures, piston-driven objects, etc…) and objects that merely have the *potential to be moved* and that are not “nailed down”, such as loose score bubbles or objects not stuck to the floor or glued to dark matter.

yeah...i would definitely agree with fishbone on this. I will send yall keys to a moving level(i mean, from the start of the level, not even one platform is static!) that only uses 1/4 of the thermo(piece by ekelrock) and is complete. This was achieved by using very few materials and only pistons and sensor switches. movement doesn't affect the thermo at all to be honest. We could hook up a directional switch to every single piston to freeze them, and it will not change the thermo.

The level will be released sometime this weekend probably, so y'all should see it soon.

[Flare Skull]

mechanics make the thermometer go up faster

[KodeRiter722]

yeah, but i would argue its not the actual mechanics, but the sum of its parts...just try it out. build a simple moving object, a box on a piston, and keep copying it over and over...

then make a complex object that doesnt move, and copy it a bunch of times. you will be amazed my friend! wulong was dead on with the corner editing tip also. once you start adding corners to to complex objects, it can really jump the thermo.

[Flare Skull]

It depends its actually mechanics not just a simple piston and 2 blocks

[KodeRiter722]

what do you mean by its mechanics? like how fast the piston is moving?

[Flare Skull]

not only like more complicated than that like in the silent hill tribute when you reach hell there is a lot of mechanics involved

[FishBone]

I agree with V1 that you have to explain it better.
Haven't played the silent hill level, but i'll try it later to see (do you know how much thermo that level uses?)

I know the thermo goes up alot if you have lots of magnetic keys, but i have only noticed it on my LED-screens and they have 400+


Edit: Didn't actually count them, took an estimate by the number of letters :)

[KodeRiter722]

i think your LED's are amazing FB! i loved the ones on the music challenge! 400+ magnetic keys!, that's crazy! :D

sorry to kinda run off topic there!

[FishBone]

not only like more complicated than that like in the silent hill tribute when you reach hell there is a lot of mechanics involved

Just played the level, and couldn't see any complicated mechanics,
When i reached hell there was only spinning cogs and some pistons, but they won't take much thermo.

[ekelrock]

while playing this past week i found that creature brains take up more thermo than other objects.... just throwing that out there. and as far as i've heard the deal with the emittors is that they take up the amount of thermo equivallent to the potential of the thermo used by the total number of XX object emitted at once. what i mean is that if you emit a box it uses, say, one unit of thermo. if you emit an octagon we'll call it two units of thermo. now if you set the emittor to make a max of 5 boxes at once it should use five units of thermo (five octagons = ten units...) but i may just be making that up too...

[blacknexus]

while playing this past week i found that creature brains take up more thermo than other objects.... just throwing that out there. and as far as i've heard the deal with the emittors is that they take up the amount of thermo equivallent to the potential of the thermo used by the total number of XX object emitted at once. what i mean is that if you emit a box it uses, say, one unit of thermo. if you emit an octagon we'll call it two units of thermo. now if you set the emittor to make a max of 5 boxes at once it should use five units of thermo (five octagons = ten units...) but i may just be making that up too...

interesting.

[ekelrock]

interesting.

yeah ask v1 about the emittor thing i think he gets it more than me... i'm like, "we can just use a piston and shove it on screen at warp speed" and he's like, "just emit the damn thing" and i'm like, "screw you, fatso" and life goes on....

[wulongheyot]

My question about thermo would be:
Emitting a complicated object

Emitter set to maximum spawn = 1, Life span =30 seconds.

When the object is emitted it takes up thermo, but when the objects life is reached and removed from play does that mean (minus) -thermo? Or does it work like:

5 emitters each set to max 1 oject each. life spand =30 second
1 emitter set to infinite life max objects emitted = 5

If all emitters were activated (or not), would it be +10 thermo?

If so, they need to update the damn thermo to include max objects/emitted objects and emitted objects from emitted objects! Blah.. say "Nis-pee" 10 times in front of a good friend!

Or if Jane had 3 balloons and charlie needed 5 more, how old is jane?

[Mrgenji]

Or if Jane had 3 balloons and charlie needed 5 more, how old is jane?

Well if jane has balloons Id asume she was younger than 9, although older enough to understand how many balloons she has. So i'd say she'd be between 4 and 9. If charlie needs more balloons than jane I'd assume s/he was an older sibling, and wants to outdo he younger realation

Jane is 4-8 and charlie is 5-9

....wait wut?

[Flare Skull]

OK here is something to do glue things that do not involve importance to the level and/or is supposed to stay in place because apparently physics of objects affect the thermometer.

[wulongheyot]

Flare are you trying to suggest "objects glued together use less thermo compared to injecting them with darkmatter?"

[Flare Skull]

Flare are you trying to suggest "objects glued together use less thermo compared to injecting them with darkmatter?"

What im saying is that if for example you have a crate or something else like a drawer that you don't need to be knocked down you can just glue it and it will take down the thermo space. try it you will se and i just had an awesome level idea when i said that :P

[ekelrock]

My question about thermo would be:
Emitting a complicated object

Emitter set to maximum spawn = 1, Life span =30 seconds.

When the object is emitted it takes up thermo, but when the objects life is reached and removed from play does that mean (minus) -thermo? Or does it work like:

5 emitters each set to max 1 oject each. life spand =30 second
1 emitter set to infinite life max objects emitted = 5

If all emitters were activated (or not), would it be +10 thermo?

If so, they need to update the damn thermo to include max objects/emitted objects and emitted objects from emitted objects! Blah.. say "Nis-pee" 10 times in front of a good friend!

Or if Jane had 3 balloons and charlie needed 5 more, how old is jane?

ok here's what i can answer: when the object is emitted the thermo will jump until the object reaches its max life span and disappears, then the thermo returns to its original place. the emitter takes up initial space, but emitted complex objects take up even more space than that initial thermo jump and having more of them in play at once jumps the thermo even more. (try making a creature and emitting five at once, then pause the game and you will see the fullest effect of those five creatures (Don't know why it jumps when you pause it) then unpause and as the creatures disappear the thermo will lower.)

another fun experiment is to make a box with an emitter, capture the object, and set the emitter to emit itself instantly with like a five second lifetime and 1 max emitted. I tried it and it overheated my level instantly from 1/4 therm. hmm, still haven't figured that one out...

[Pinchanzee]

Sorry if these have been mentioned

Corner Edit Tool
Use this to cut out edges you don't need, the more edges, the more thermo space. Particularly off screen, where it doesn't matter what it looks like

Pay close attention to emitters
If your emitters are emitting large objects, it can clog up the thermo big time. Ask yourself how many you need to be emitted at once, and tweak that.(trust me, this really helps, I got 2 thermo bars today on a full level from changing max at once from 5 to 2)
Also, try to avoid infite lifetime, if the player is only ever likely to be at that part for maybe a minute max, make the liftime 90 seconds. Thermo's are by far the biggest thermo consumer (imo anyway)

[KodeRiter722]

hey Pinchanzee! I think it was before you arrived, but we already had a discussion started for this a while back. I will merge the threads to keep things all in one place. :D

[Pinchanzee]

Cool, thanks :)

[noemiid]

if the thermo fills up quickly when you use many different materials, then how does X-NOBODY-X do everything?

[KodeRiter722]

using many different materials, even if they are of the same type, can be VERY taxing on thermo. Everyone is given the same amount of memory, which is all the thermo represents, so I am sure he doesnt build very complex tech or he is making sacrifices elsewhere if he is in fact using many different materials. I mean, any level is going to need to consist of at least 5-8 materials in order to not look bland, but if you are using 20 different materials than you are wasting therm where it can be better spent.

[Pinchanzee]

Maybe he just stickers it..? Seems a bit unneccessary though..

[noemiid]

Maybe he just stickers it..? Seems a bit unneccessary though..

you cant have too many stickers on an object or the first ones will be deleted off the object. oh my gosh, for once i didn't miss spell anything!

[FishBone]

you cant have too many stickers on an object or the first ones will be deleted off the object. oh my gosh, for once i didn't miss spell anything!

Sorry to say it but you misspelled misspell :Worried:

Ontopic:
Does anyone make and-gates and other tech made of triangles?
It would save some thermo i guess, but would be more work to make them.

[Pinchanzee]

Does anyone make and-gates and other tech made of triangles?
It would save some thermo i guess, but would be more work to make them.

I don't - rectangles for me, I fail to see the significance in one less edge out of god knows how many hundreds or thousands there are in your level...
And yep, I think it'd be harder to get accurate and take longer to make, using the grid anyway.
Really am struggling to see the benefit of triangles for tech..

[FishBone]

I don't - rectangles for me, I fail to see the significance in one less edge out of god knows how many hundreds or thousands there are in your level...
And yep, I think it'd be harder to get accurate and take longer to make, using the grid anyway.
Really am struggling to see the benefit of triangles for tech..

Yeah, i don't do it myself. But would be fun to try it to see how much you could save.
My levels is almost only tech, so might be something i should try.

[spyrewolf]

I started reply to another thread and realized this may be helpful to others(sorry if I placed it in the wrong thread) I have seen post stating MM have an extended thermometer, but do not agree with this logic, I think a few people are not getting the most from their meters

this is not science but done solely from observation.

The one thing I have found in the the editor, in terms of stretching it as far as it can go is not just the number of materials, stickers, decorations etc, it's a bit more complex.

materials used : some share a common 3d model, this can allow you to piggy back off the original material used - try placing certain versions of the sponge, look at the stitching, this is a dead give away you can have a few material with out decimating your thermo dark gray concrete - and basic concrete is another, just try placing a standard cube and looking at the thermometer, if it rises dramatically its a new model ;)

Edges : the number of edges affects the use of the thermometer, if you have hundreds of small cubes that placed in your level you going to have a lot of edges, this is a thermo killer, - on top of which if you have a hundreds of octagons that's even more edges, if you need to make complex terrain say a craggy mountain your best to start with a cube and alter the geometry with the edge tool, so you can add as many or as few point to the shape with out wasting the valuable edges, i found personally the shapes come out better also.

stickers/decoration: each new decoration and sticker will add to your thermo, some of the 3d decorations take up a lot more this also includes spikes and other 3d objects (so use those sparingly) - a good way to conserves sticker memory (if possible) is if your stickers are on say a flat wall take picture of your stickers in full lighting (not dark it messes with the sticker if you decide to change the lighting) you can stick multiple stickers to and area with just one sticker. i.e you have 3 blood splats on a stone wall, place 3 blood splat stickers take the picture remove the splats apply your new stone wall blood splat not always the best choice all the time but usefull in other

Emitters: the hogs of the thermometers as most of you know emitters are deadly to levels especially when it comes to emitting multiple complex objects, just because you cant see it does not mean its not there, say you have a detailed tank, and you want to emit 10 of them at any one time the thermo decides that there are 10 tanks in the level, (this does not apply to 1 at a time with multiple emits) (hope that made sense)

logic: sound, pistons, triggers, legs, wheels, etc, if your going to create an enemy with wheels, and one with legs your better to use one type, this is true with 3d object also as i was outlining earlier. if you place say the metal plate, stick to that,after your initial placement the editor will only bump large once then very little from that point on, this is true with sounds, winches, pistons. switches, buttons etc. also note that AI brains take up more or less space depending on what they do, enemies that ignore the player and move left to right, will take up less than those that chase the player and jump around.

so in closing my advice would be to choose a "design scheme" and stick to it, not only will you make bigger and better levels, the level will also feel more cohesive as well :D.

I really hope this helps people and feel free to ask any questions I'll be more than willing to help where I can.

[narF72]

Gluing things down definitely works. I have a "lost soul" object in one of my levels which is basically a grab switch, some dissolve material, score bubbles inside, and a sound effect when you "collect" it. The whole thing is around 10 separate parts, counting the bubbles.

Unfortunately I couldn't glue them all cause there is sometimes a reason to move them, but gluing down a couple dozen did give me back two small thermo bars just by itself!

Design every level from the start with the thought in the back of your head that your thermo is already almost full, then just try to conserve every single bit as you go along.

[Blukerbeh]

to save thermometer space use more of the same material
same with stickers

[AwesomePossum]

Yeah, and using objects from the Objects bag (like the Doll arm, or shuriken) costs up half a bar of thermo, you have to make sure you will use it throughout the whole level if you want to save thermo..

[Dubster]

Yeah, and using objects from the Objects bag (like the Doll arm, or shuriken) costs up half a bar of thermo, you have to make sure you will use it throughout the whole level if you want to save thermo..

Guess that discourages everyone to use MM made objects :P

Anyways, I had one here, but I forgot what I should say... Ah, yes:

NEVER, and I mean NEVER glue points together. This takes up a heckload of thermo, especially when emitted. I once tried to put a small cross of points to drop from an emitter, but it took up really much space. About 1/4 of the thermo for every 5 crosses on the level.
Also, if you, say, drop bombs on indestructible material is very dangerous if you have alot of stickers. First of all, each bomb has a potential to drop 8 stickers on your level. This easily means that your level can overheat if you let too many bombs fall upon many areas. An example of this is the crumbling floor bomb survival on the cool pages right now by Steve_Big_Guns. It overheats when you get near the bottom due to the massive amount of stickers that are placed on the pieces of ground.

[vladimirimp]

I have a question relating to this. I understand that gluing objects together is not cool from a thermo point of view. However, what about drawing one material directly onto (into?) another so that the net result is the same as gluing?

In case that wasn't clear, imagine drawing a wood square, then drawing a sponge surface in a line across the top. Is that the same as gluing in terms of thermo cost?

[Dubster]

I have a question relating to this. I understand that gluing objects together is not cool from a thermo point of view. However, what about drawing one material directly onto (into?) another so that the net result is the same as gluing?

In case that wasn't clear, imagine drawing a wood square, then drawing a sponge surface in a line across the top. Is that the same as gluing in terms of thermo cost?

To answer your question, when you place sponge on top, you're efficiently creating a new material, if you haven't created sponge earlier, as it doesn't share the same model with any material. This takes up some space, to begin with.

Also, bear in mind that what the thermometer looks for isn't the size, but the amount of corners. Look at your new item you have created. How many edges did it have compared to the earlier one?

Also, the thermo doesn't really mind about gluing, atleast not with basic materials, so don't worry ;). When you start gluing points, you'll see a difference, but not else.

I just noticed I only answered your question through the last part of my post, but I guess that doesn't really matter ;)

[vladimirimp]

OK thanks. So overlaying one material onto another isn't an inherently bad idea in terms of thermometer. Sounds like all the talk of glue above is a bit of a red herring!

[narF72]

I think a distinction needs to be made between gluing objects and gluing score bubbles together.

Gluing score bubbles *raises* your thermo quite a bit if you do it alot and use emitters on top of that.

Gluing free-moving objects to your floor or background when there is no need for them to be moving *lower* your thermo because there are less moving objects for the game to keep track of.

Overlaying material shouldn't have much of an effect, but use a grid or look closely, because sometimes by drawing one material into another you can "miss" by a tiny bit and cause more corners, therefore higher thermo. Also, some materials like sponge and dark matter have slightly naturally-rounded edges and if you aren't careful these can add extra vertices, too.

[Dubster]

I think a distinction needs to be made between gluing objects and gluing score bubbles together.

Gluing score bubbles *raises* your thermo quite a bit if you do it alot and use emitters on top of that.

Gluing free-moving objects to your floor or background when there is no need for them to be moving *lower* your thermo because there are less moving objects for the game to keep track of.

Overlaying material shouldn't have much of an effect, but use a grid or look closely, because sometimes by drawing one material into another you can "miss" by a tiny bit and cause more corners, therefore higher thermo

I noticed I was quite wrong about score bubbles glued together. It's the thing that letting score bubbles loose (Free to move around) will increase thermo due to many being at the same spot at the same time, atleast if you let them clutter up all over the place instead of maybe putting them onto a string or gluing them to solid ground.

It is a fairly complicated matter, I'm afraid, and one shouldn't care about gluing to conserve thermometer. What I would really care about is to change any materials/stickers you use very little of compared to all others if you need to conserve thermo. Once the level is done, you can add things to rock it up a bit ;) Also avoid emitters set to emit much more than needed.

[jaqo123]

I seem to rememember that I once won a prize that consisted of a flat piece of wood covered in decorations and stickers which COMPLETELY filled the thermometer. I guess this proves the point about stickers taking up lots of space...

[ka kelly]

i have hade it with that anoying termometer in the game.:@@@:@@@:@@@:@@@:@@@:@@@i think it should not even be in the game. i only get 2 make a very small level because the temomiter keeps over heating:@@@:@@@:@@@:@@@:@@@:@@@:@@@:@@@:@@@:@@@:@@ @:@@@

[Yellow_Converse]

Whoa. Clam down, there, missy. :p
There are ways of helping lessen the space taken up. :)

[SuicidalSquirrel]

yeps yeps listen to da converse XD

[nitewalker11]

to help keep your heat down, use a maximum of ten different material types. thats what i do. although occasioanlly i do more.

[UltraRazpacho]

Moved to LittleBigPlanet (PS3) since Feedback is for feedback about the forum, not the game.

[kaiju_kid]

They didn't put that thermometer in there for nothing, it keeps track of how much you can put in your level without the level crashing. As it is, some levels run slow or lag badly within the limit of the thermometer.

[macnme]

Avoid custom stickers - or using to many stickers.

Everyone is on the same playing field when it comes to thermometer memory management.
If your level is over-heating, try using not as many different types of material/stickers - as pre-loading those resources is one of the main drains on the memory.

The thermometer is there for a very good reason.

[joeyPL96]

yeah, if you skipped the thermo limit, it wold start lagging and taking ages to load...

[Adam9001]

Next time try thinking why its there.


Your obviousely just making crap with your level, using to much emitters, materials,stickers, etc,

[litled]

video from media molecule



http://www.mediamolecule.com/2009/09/24/lbp-tips-special-3-%E2%80%93-the-thermometer/

[EnochRoot]

Great video essential watching

[FlyingIrishMan]

Another tips video from us? How kind we are!

So, you’re building your masterpiece, you’re half way through, but suddenly OH NOES your level is overheating! The Thermometer has gone through the roof, and now you can’t add any more!
Well fear not – Kenny and John are here to tell you all about the Thermometer, and how to keep your levels from overheating. Enjoy!


wouW9v3A_Ng

[octav1a]

Excellent! Just in time for me to squeeze out some more mercury into my level!

[Whofan75]

Tremendously helpful, litled. thnx for the link.

[Striker Ink]

thx man :D BONK! :ascared:

[SuicidalSquirrel]

i loved those tips :) will help me in the making of my new level

[FishBone]

Great video, most of it has been said here before, but great to get confirmed that the circles aren't counting as many vertices.

[lbptrophyluver]

wow thats really helpful not to mention the commentary helped meh listen lol:P

[EnochRoot]

some great tips in this thread if you want to maximize your thermometer useage:D